Mandel says: “With our cooperation, a lot of progress can be made. Maybe we can even eradicate sexual assault on this campus. Without our cooperation, it will be much more difficult. And the easiest way to lose my cooperation — and that of every other brother — is to call me a rapist.”

“But I’m not like that!” is a pretty common defense to make when someone classifies the Greek system on campus as “heteronormative”, “misogynistic”, “a safe haven for sexual assault”, whatever. But just as Mandel doesn’t represent the Greek system, nor can a moral vindication of Mandel exonerate the Greek system as a whole either. The problem isn’t any one individual frat brother (most aren’t rapists), or even a whole bunch of individual frat brothers. It’s the whole damn “bro culture” – the language used to demean and objectify women (“she’s totally f***able”), the single sex social segregation, the casual rape joke, the liberal application of booze, etc. Sure, some brothers have done things to actively combat sexual assault on campus (and kudos to them) – but there’s a lot less action going about combatting what feminists like myself term “rape culture”, the kind of environment that promotes sexual violence and misogyny and makes sexual assault in a dim frat basement that must easier to justify. Mandel says, “Fraternity brothers are the ones who control the social spaces on campus, and therefore to some degree control the social norms on campus.” That’s the crux of the problem – that the social scene IS dominated by fraternities. There are whole bunch of solutions to the frat-dominated social space that have been suggested already and practically beaten to death (e.g. more coed fraternity involvement, “alternative social spaces” – whatever that means) – but no meaningful steps to actually combat said social norms (which, incidentally, are not ONLY within your average frat brother’s power, but also every single person on campus).

So, please. I know you’re probably not a racist. But combatting rape on this campus is going to take a lot more than a panel with Jim Kim, as awesome as he is. It’s not even just about sexual assault. It takes a conscious recognition of the ways in which we participate in misogynistic, heteronormative, sexist language, actions, culture – and not just your own complicity, but also every single one of your brothers.

who said anything about him being a racist…? is frat bro culture any more problematic than the culture of girls and their absurd sense of entitlement at dartmouth?

FFS, Angela. Here’s something that is within your power and that of everyone who believes the Greek system to be a hotbed for rape culture–don’t go!

There are alternate social spaces-there are common rooms, there’s the Hop, there’s PB events, there’s empty classrooms you can get approval to meet in, etc. If you’re complaining that there’s a dearth of places to get drunk for free and have the Greek house holding the bag if you get caught staggering back to your dorm, then yes, there’s a dearth of options. Otherwise, though, be in charge of your own experience and find other options.

Duh, it’s a typo. “rapist” vs “racist”

I think she meant “rapist”, anon. Also “girls' …absurd sense of entitlement”? What are you talking about? Dartmouth as a WHOLE is a bastion of incredible entitlement, but that has nothing to do with point Ms. Zhang was making.

Typo – should have been “rapist” (this is what I get for writing earlyish in the morning).

I’m not talking about the absurd entitlement of girls at Dartmouth (which I’m not sure is solely a problem of girls). That’s a whole different subject entirely. However, I do think that people have a right to not be objectified solely based on their gender or sexual orientation and to be free from the fear of sexual violence. That’s not entitlement, that’s basic human dignity, which goes for both men and women.

“is frat bro culture any more problematic than the culture of girls and their absurd sense of entitlement at dartmouth?” If the former leads to rape and the latter doesn’t, then frat bro culture is definitely more problematic than any sense of entitlement. By the way, anonymous, do you care to elaborate on what you mean by this? Because I’m tempted to say that your post ought to read: “…any more problematic than the culture of STUDENTS and their absurd sense of entitlement at dartmouth?”

I’m not complaining there’s a “dearth of places to get drunk for free and have the Greek house holding the bag if you get caught staggering back to your dorm” (love the ad hominem! Full disclosure – I’m part of a coed house and have never raged or gotten drunk). While it is problematic that even women who find the frat bro culture intimidating or threatening keep frequenting those frat basements anyways (if you don’t like it, then don’t go), the “hotbed of rape culture” isn’t just limited to frat basements on Friday night. The whole point of rape culture is that it’s pervasive, influencing the way we behave, sober or drunk. It’s hard to avoid having even a tangential relationship to the Greek system when a majority of upperclassmen are part of it, no matter how many PB events you go to.

Tom hit the nail on the head when he called out the lack of accountability. Dartmouth will always have students who are sociopaths. Alcohol will always cause men and women to make made decisions. What distinguishes a healthy community from a jungle is the willingness of those who are not drunk and not sociopaths to stand up for a healthy, just, accommodating community.

Real accountability would do among the most important steps for dealing with sexual assault, vandalism, excessive alcohol, drug abuse, depression, cheating, racist/sexist/homophobic acts, hazing, other kinds of bullying, and other problems.

Social cowardice has to get fixed.

Could we all just take a step back, and commend Mandel on this editorial? This is not some ass-covering memo from the IFC. There’s real honesty here, and Mandel is pointing to the very real allies Dartmouth students have in some of the “least likely” places on campus.

But to Mandel, and all the other voices in this discussion, ENOUGH about feeling polarized. To the fraternity brothers, you’ve done so much to facilitate these discussions amongst yourselves and with campus. You can’t all of a sudden halt the progress you’ve made because feel hurt by some anonymous campus blitz. To the many other voices in this discussion, this is not your opportunity to lash out against all the ills of the Greek system just because you don’t fall as neatly into the category of “frat bros.”

If you’re committed to changing the culture of sexual assault, you don’t have time to feel polarized.

Typical Dartmouth solution: Before a major problem can be addressed, we have to make sure that all parties, involved or not involved, have had their hurt feelings taken care off. Then committees are formed and ten years later, the problem is still with us. Stdent need to take these problems on themselves. They can’t wait for mommy or Jim Kim to do it. Mommy might be able to help, but Jim Kim is elsewhere.

It seems overly severe to say that Dartmouth has a ‘culture of sexual assault’ or ‘rape culture.’ Surely the College has serious problems – as do, let’s keep in mind for perspective’s sake, many other colleges – but to say that we have a culture that actively promotes rape and sexual assault appears designed to agitate and frustrate with no productive end in mind.

Mandel, thank you for being a responsible frat bro with the balls to honestly engage in this controversy, and put yourself out here for the deluge of angry blitzes you’re probably receiving. I agree with you emphatically.

sexual assault happens everywhere not just frats. it could happen at an off campus party, or it could happen at a sorority, it just happens more at a frat bc, lets face it, there is a lot more drinking going on. when you have a group of guys that are drunk and a group of girls that are drunk, something is bound to happen. now if a girl does engage in sexual activity while drunk and in the morning realizes that she shouldnt have done it and calls it rape bc she wasnt in the right state to consent, that is bull in my opinion. it was the girls decision to put herself in that situation in the first place. if she wanted to be in control of her body, she should have thought about that before she started drinking.

Angela, the comment about fraternities getting in trouble when people get busted for drinking wasn’t an ad hominem attack. You should be smart enough to recognize that, especially in light of the recent charges filed against various houses (including a sorority!). You also seem to use “bro culture” and “rape culture” interchangeably. This is a remarkable error. Also a remarkable error is the claim of a “pervasive” rape culture. I agree that this is a very serious issue, but we should also take a pragmatic approach and refrain from exaggerated language. Had you not used the term “rape culture” in your comments, I don’t think I would’ve ever associated it with our school.

Lastly, alternative social spaces would thrive if there were actually a demand for them. There isn’t, really.

@anon 3:18: you are onto something. This won’t stop until some drunk guy gets his penis cut off. Think first.

@3:18: Your comment actually makes no sense. If someone is too drunk to give consent, they cannot freely engage in sexual activity. So they wouldn’t wake up and “realize they shouldn’t have done it” because in this situation they weren’t given a choice.

Sexual assault is pervasive on this campus because of comments like this. comments like, if guys and girls are drunk together, it has to result in sex! guess what?? some people like to go out and drink and aren’t looking to have sex. By your logic, women on this campus aren’t allowed to get too drunk because they should know if they lose control of their body someone is going to assault them???

NO MATTER HOW DRUNK SOMEONE GETS THEY NEVER DESERVE TO BE ASSAULTED.

Anon@4:03 PM – the comment about fraternities getting in trouble when people get busted for drinking is also not relevant to the whole topic, but Anon@10:06 AM seemed to be making a lot of assumptions (that were pretty pointed at me) about the way I behave, who I socialize with, and what I do in my free time – hence my assumption it was an ad hominem attack.

I recognize that “bro culture” and “rape culture” (the latter being a feminist term describing our entire society, not just Dartmouth) are not the same. Unfortunately, for the purposes that I’m discussing here – namely, sexual assault and misogyny in the Greek system – they’re pretty interrelated. They both share a lot of the same characteristics that make sexual assault a frightening possibility on campus – the use of language to render women into sex objects, the treatment of sex as conquest, the tolerance of casual sexism, etc. “Rape culture” isn’t an just indictment of Dartmouth – it’s simply the nature of a society in general that normalizes sexism and therefore makes rape excusable (see Anon@3:18 PM for a great case of rape apologism). I think the more remarkable error is to not recognize that all the characteristics of rape culture exist at Dartmouth, both in and out of the frat basement. Once again, it is not just about finding alternative social spaces on campus. Sexism is not spatially or temporally limited. I say it is pervasive because we find it in almost every part of our daily lives – in the media, in our language, in our social interactions, in our most basic assumptions – whether we are at Dartmouth or not.

Becker and Anon@2:24 PM: It isn’t about soothing over our collective hurt feelings. It’s about choosing consciously not to engage in sexism. Far from wasting time feeling polarized, recognizing and not participating in sexism is a call to action that doesn’t need a ten year committee and is accessible to everyone.

First, Kudos to Mr. Mandel and Ms. Zheng, it is discourse like yours that continues to maintain the status quo. It seems that every campus event at Dartmouth concerning fraternities has an ever unchanging script. A hyperbolic statement from the fringe that wants to completely change the system, followed by a half-hearted apology from the fraternity system (and possibly a forum), then a bunch of rhetoric tossed back and forth, then nothing.

Mr. Mandel, as someone who took part in the meetings leading to your forum last year I will say that the forum was absolutely an apology, and no it did not get anything done. Articles like this discredit the whole system. The system cannot deny that there are mistakes made. However, these mistakes are made by individuals not groups. In any grouping of 2000 men there will be a few that will try to take advantage of women. An even smaller group will do this violently. From my experiences as both an fraternity officer and IFC member I can tell you that no frat explicitly or silently condones rape or assault. The borders get blurry when in a group of intoxicated individuals, and both sides must recognize the dangers of the situation. In my time I saw men take home women who may have had a bit much to drink as well as women who were very sexually aggressive with men and then claimed to have gotten assaulted simply because they were socially embarrassed the next day. Most male members will look out for female guests even if it means going up against their own brothers. Violent rape does not stay silent in fraternities.

Ms. Zheng, for a “feminist” who shouldn’t enjoy labeling genders, you sure do like labeling men on this campus (as well as buzzwords). The truth is saying the campus has a “rape culture” and insinuating that all fraternity members implicitly involve themselves with rape is blatantly untrue. I dare you to cite one real statistic that shows that Dartmouth is off the charts in terms of rape and sexual assault compared to other college campuses. How many “rapists” are arrested and tried? The cases at Dartmouth are not “rapes” as the word is commonly used, but times when a participant in sexual activity may or may not have given verbal consent or had the ability to give verbal consent. Legally this is considered rape and it is no doubt a serious issue. However, in saying Dartmouth has a “rape culture” you are using the term very loosely. Dartmouth has a culture where many men and women consume enough alcohol to make them unable to give consent. It is also a place where there is a lot of stress and sexual tension. Almost all of these types of sexual encounters include mutual consent. Many the ones deemed “rape” do not include one party explicitly or implicitly saying no. These encounters exist in a somewhat gray area. Calling all drunken sexual encounters “rapes” is factually inaccurate. However, saying that these situations do not exist is equally inaccurate. Calling Dartmouth men “rapists” is really equivalent to calling Dartmouth women “sluts” or calling some people/fraternities “racists” (perhaps a Freudian slip on the part of Ms. Zheng). These general statements are absurd, and both sides are guilty. These terms can stick with a person or group for life and are often not grounded in fact.

In summary, Mr. Mandel, be honest (bro) and Ms. Zheng please keep your comments and mastery of liberal buzzwords to your WGST class, or better yet, yourself.

Fraternity brothers deserve no special credit for holding sexual assault awareness programs, just as they deserve no special praise for not being rapists, really! That’s simply as it should be. They deserve no special credit for endorsing the notion that women are human beings who deserve the same respect any human being deserves. That’s just as things should be. I think members of all-male fraternities sometimes think they deserve special recognition for actively promoting the dignity of women because, as organizations that discriminate against women—deny them membership specifically because they are women—they intuitively feel they have something to make up for. And, of course, they do. They ask us to give them special props for sensitivity programs and for announcing their conviction that women deserve the same respect as men because in their membership rules they send exactly the opposite message. Why not stop discriminating against women in membership rules and then you won’t have to ask for special (compensatory) recognition as non-sexist organizations.

Prof. Luxon appears to be opposed to fraternities on the general principle that they discriminate based upon gender. Keep in mind that they are organized to promote fraternal relationships. It is impossible to do this without discriminating as to members. I do not understand his logic that this implies a disrespect for women.

How is this different than an elite academic institution that discriminates against those who are challenged in intellectual ability? Do we disrespect those who fail to meet Dartmouth’s admission criteria?

If mixed-gender social organizations are “better”, then students can create more of them. The problem is drinking and a hookup culture, not fraternity.